[CPN] Fwd: Decision on proposal with respect to species

Sat May 12 12:07:22 EDT 2012

Rather than sift through previous emails, some of which may have been
intended only for internal discussion, would it be better if individual
members elected to send Brent, Nico and David a summary of their previous
comments?

After all the issue of accepting their proposal is closed and there is no
use in further debate and cluttering up everyone's mailbox ...
particularly if the committee wants to consider certain amendments now. 
That would make a clean distinction, it seems to me.

I agree with Phil about including the authors of the proposal in
discussion before a final decision is reached.  Could I suggest another
way to do that?  We might discuss this among ourselves for a while and
identify general consensus (if it exists) on the proposal.  These points
could be summarized for the authors, who would then be asked to respond
(one hopes in no more than a few pages max).  Then the committee could
discuss those points and make a final decision.  Just a suggestion; it
might be a bit cleaner.  -- kp

> This seems like a fair request.  If the CPN agrees, I can easily add
> Brent, Nico and David to the listserv for the purpose of this discussion
> and then unsubscribe them after we are done discussing their proposal.  If
> we agree to this, though, I think Dave (as CPN chair) will need to be
> assertive about cutting off discussion of particular points if it becomes
> clear that the pros and cons of that point are being stated repeatedly by
> the same people on each side.  Otherwise, progress will slow to a snail's
> pace and everyone's time will be wasted.
>
> I'm not sure how best to give the proposal authors access to the points
> that led to our initial decision.  This relates to the following in Dave's
> message yesterday:
> "Also, I wonder if we should post several of the responses and or snippets
> of the discussion for the authors and rest of the society to see?  For
> example, I feel that Dick Olmstead's review that he shared with the
> committee, David Hillis' comments, and Kevin's response do a very good job
> of articulating the position of the CPN, and it seems like the authors and
> the society should be aware of these."  The messages that Dave suggests
> are good choices, but I also suggest that we include my explanation of why
> I object strongly to permitting the conversion of specific epithets to
> clade names (i.e., the elimination of Art. 10.9); this is in a relatively
> short message that I sent to the CPN on January 11.  Other members of the
> CPN may also want to include points made in their messages too.   Perhaps
> each of us should choose particular points we would like to share with the
> authors of the proposal, and in addition let's send them David Hillis'
> comments.
>
> Phil
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Brent Mishler
> <bmishler at calmail.berkeley.edu<mailto:bmishler at calmail.berkeley.edu>>
> Subject: Re: [CPN] Decision on proposal with respect to species
> Date: May 12, 2012 12:19:50 AM EDT
> To: David Tank <dtank at uidaho.edu<mailto:dtank at uidaho.edu>>
> Cc: Committee on Phylogenetic Nomenclature
> <cpn at listserv.ohio.edu<mailto:cpn at listserv.ohio.edu>>, David Baum
> <dbaum at facstaff.wisc.edu<mailto:dbaum at facstaff.wisc.edu>>, Nico Cellinese
> <ncellinese at flmnh.ufl.edu<mailto:ncellinese at flmnh.ufl.edu>>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> Thanks for the news; it is better to hear it directly.  I know there is
> not a lot of precedent for CPN procedure; I think we were the first
> "outside" proposal you had to deal with.  So I'd like to suggest a
> procedural improvement: at some point it would be fair for us to have a
> chance to reply to points made by CPN members.  So far it has been like a
> debate where only one side is allowed to actually debate.  The people with
> vested interest in the current treatment of species in the Phylocode,
> Kevin and Phil, are in the debate and none of the three of us are.
>
> Just a thought,
>
> Best,
>
> Brent
>
>
> On May 11, 2012, at 7:17 PM, David Tank wrote:
>
> Dear Nico, Brent, and David,
>
> Thank you for your thoughtful proposal for changes to the PhyloCode with
> respect to species.  The CPN has voted to reject the proposal as an entire
> entity but also decided to continue discussion to determine if there are
> elements of your proposal that we would like to incorporate in the next
> revision of the draft code.  I apologize on behalf of the CPN for not
> having informed you promptly about the initial vote, an oversight that was
> related to the fact that we are still discussing elements of the proposal
> and thus view the decision-making process as still in progress.  At the
> conclusion of this discussion, we will inform you of the outcome as well
> as posting the CPN decision on the news section of the ISPN website.
>
> All the best,
> Dave
> _________________________________
> David C. Tank
> Assistant Professor & Director, Stillinger Herbarium
> University of Idaho
> 208.885.7033
> dtank at uidaho.edu<mailto:dtank at uidaho.edu>
> http://www.phylodiversity.net/dtank/
>
>
>
> **********************************************************
> Brent D. Mishler
>      Professor, Department of Integrative Biology
>      Director, University and Jepson Herbaria
>      University of California, Berkeley
>   Mailing address:
>      UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY
>      UNIVERSITY AND JEPSON HERBARIA
>      1001 VALLEY LIFE SCIENCES BLDG # 2465
>      BERKELEY, CA  94720-2465  USA
>   Office: 4164 VLSB
>   Phone:  (510) 642-6810 [office and lab]
>   FAX:    (510) 643-5390
>   E-mail:
> bmishler at calmail.berkeley.edu<mailto:bmishler at calmail.berkeley.edu>
>   WWW:    http://ucjeps.berkeley.edu/people/mishler.html
> **********************************************************
>
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-- 
Kevin Padian
Department of Integrative Biology &
Museum of Paleontology
University of California, Berkeley CA 94720-3140
510-642-7434
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/people/padian/home.php