[CPN] next set of CBM-related proposals

[Michel Laurin]

I am in favor of these changes.

     Michel

On 29/10/12 16:19, Cantino, Philip wrote:
> Folks,
>
> This is a worthwhile discussion that should definitely be continued, 
> but I realize now that I made a mistake in even including the glossary 
> definition of Taxon in this round of voting.  This was the one entry 
> in David's Sept. 29 set of comments that I suggested we postpone 
> because it will take a while to work through the many uses of the term 
> "taxon" in the code.  In my Oct. 24 message in which I inserted 
> replies to David's comments, I noted that we agreed to defer voting on 
> the glossary definition of Taxon---but I unfortunately forgot to 
> remove this item from the list of changes that we are voting on right 
> now.  My apologies for the confusion!
>
> The attached document is identical to the one I sent you on Friday 
> except that I have deleted the glossary definition of Taxon as one 
> that we are voting on at this time.  I am not trying to suppress 
> discussion of this item.  We will return to this and related changes 
> in the code (and also revision of Art. 21), but after many months of 
> discussion, I think it is best that we vote on the several changes 
> that no one has expressed disagreement about.
>
> I suggested on Friday that we call a vote on this set of changes today 
> if there were no comments by Sunday and if no one objected to this 
> schedule.  No one has objected to the schedule, and the only comments 
> are on the glossary definition of Taxon, so let's please vote on the 
> other changes (attached).  Please send your vote to this listserv by 
> this Friday (Nov. 2).  [If someone feels this is insufficient time in 
> which to vote, please say so, but we have been discussing the CBM 
> proposal for months.]
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 29, 2012, at 10:56 AM, de Queiroz, Kevin wrote:
>
> > When it comes to the definition of "clade", it's a bit 
> over-simplified to declare that other people are simply wrong.  They 
> would argue that the definition of "clade" is "an ancestral _species_ 
> and all of its descendants". Moreover, some of them might also argue 
> that it is useful to distinguish terminologically between groups 
> composed of an ancestor and all of its descendants that conform (more 
> or less) to a nested hierarchical pattern (species, uniparental 
> organisms) and those that do not (biparental organisms).
> >
> > Kevin
> > ________________________________________
> > From: cpn-bounces at listserv.ohio.edu [cpn-bounces at listserv.ohio.edu] 
> On Behalf Of David Marjanovic [david.marjanovic at gmx.at]
> > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 1:29 AM
> > To: Committee on Phylogenetic Nomenclature
> > Subject: Re: [CPN] next set of CBM-related proposals
> >
> >> I do not favor Mike's proposed  revision (of the definition of
> >> "taxon") for the following reason: some people view clades/higher
> >> taxa not as monophyletic groups of organisms but as monophyletic
> >> groups of species.
> >
> > They're wrong. "Clade" = "an ancestor and all its descendants", even if
> > that's a small part of a species or partially overlaps with one or
> > several species. The PhyloCode allows the naming of LITUs, as it should.
> >
> > Besides, under most species concepts, not only are "speciation" and
> > "cladogenesis" not synonyms*, but neither is even a subset of the other;
> > inevitably, then, clades will usually contain entire species and parts
> > of other species under those species concepts.
> >
> > * Although lots of people, even in the primary literature, use
> > "speciation" when they mean "cladogenesis". It's as if almost nobody
> > even knew the latter term.
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> >
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>
>
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