[CPN] next set of CBM-related proposals

[Kevin Padian]

I am fine with Phil's proposal.  -- kp


> Folks,
>
> This is a worthwhile discussion that should definitely be continued, but I
> realize now that I made a mistake in even including the glossary
> definition of Taxon in this round of voting.  This was the one entry in
> David's Sept. 29 set of comments that I suggested we postpone because it
> will take a while to work through the many uses of the term "taxon" in the
> code.  In my Oct. 24 message in which I inserted replies to David's
> comments, I noted that we agreed to defer voting on the glossary
> definition of Taxon---but I unfortunately forgot to remove this item from
> the list of changes that we are voting on right now.  My apologies for the
> confusion!
>
> The attached document is identical to the one I sent you on Friday except
> that I have deleted the glossary definition of Taxon as one that we are
> voting on at this time.  I am not trying to suppress discussion of this
> item.  We will return to this and related changes in the code (and also
> revision of Art. 21), but after many months of discussion, I think it is
> best that we vote on the several changes that no one has expressed
> disagreement about.
>
> I suggested on Friday that we call a vote on this set of changes today if
> there were no comments by Sunday and if no one objected to this schedule.
> No one has objected to the schedule, and the only comments are on the
> glossary definition of Taxon, so let's please vote on the other changes
> (attached).  Please send your vote to this listserv by this Friday (Nov.
> 2).  [If someone feels this is insufficient time in which to vote, please
> say so, but we have been discussing the CBM proposal for months.]
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 29, 2012, at 10:56 AM, de Queiroz, Kevin wrote:
>
>> When it comes to the definition of "clade", it's a bit over-simplified
>> to declare that other people are simply wrong.  They would argue that
>> the definition of "clade" is "an ancestral _species_ and all of its
>> descendants".  Moreover, some of them might also argue that it is useful
>> to distinguish terminologically between groups composed of an ancestor
>> and all of its descendants that conform (more or less) to a nested
>> hierarchical pattern (species, uniparental organisms) and those that do
>> not (biparental organisms).
>>
>> Kevin
>> ________________________________________
>> From: cpn-bounces at listserv.ohio.edu [cpn-bounces at listserv.ohio.edu] On
>> Behalf Of David Marjanovic [david.marjanovic at gmx.at]
>> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 1:29 AM
>> To: Committee on Phylogenetic Nomenclature
>> Subject: Re: [CPN] next set of CBM-related proposals
>>
>>> I do not favor Mike's proposed  revision (of the definition of
>>> "taxon") for the following reason: some people view clades/higher
>>> taxa not as monophyletic groups of organisms but as monophyletic
>>> groups of species.
>>
>> They're wrong. "Clade" = "an ancestor and all its descendants", even if
>> that's a small part of a species or partially overlaps with one or
>> several species. The PhyloCode allows the naming of LITUs, as it should.
>>
>> Besides, under most species concepts, not only are "speciation" and
>> "cladogenesis" not synonyms*, but neither is even a subset of the other;
>> inevitably, then, clades will usually contain entire species and parts
>> of other species under those species concepts.
>>
>> * Although lots of people, even in the primary literature, use
>> "speciation" when they mean "cladogenesis". It's as if almost nobody
>> even knew the latter term.
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-- 
Kevin Padian
Department of Integrative Biology &
Museum of Paleontology
University of California, Berkeley CA 94720-3140
510-642-7434
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/people/padian/home.php